tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14410967.post7584187442237650656..comments2024-03-25T19:00:40.046-06:00Comments on The Constructive Curmudgeon: Confused all the Way Down: Rob Bell on Sex, God, and ConnectionDouglas Groothuis, Ph.D.http://www.blogger.com/profile/08766692378954258034noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14410967.post-39831589300499593122007-06-08T18:11:00.000-06:002007-06-08T18:11:00.000-06:00I never said Bell was Gnostic; I was qualifying my...I never said Bell was Gnostic; I was qualifying my own view. We do apprehend God on many levels through creation: rational and intuitive. You're painting me with the wrong brush.<BR/><BR/>But I still disagree with Bell for the reasons cited.Douglas Groothuis, Ph.D.https://www.blogger.com/profile/08766692378954258034noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14410967.post-20384027138168783822007-06-08T11:49:00.000-06:002007-06-08T11:49:00.000-06:00Rob Bell's book certainly sounds very pop-oriented...Rob Bell's book certainly sounds very pop-oriented and a bit shallow - at least the clips you cited. However, I might point out that on my reading Romans 1 makes an explicit connection to God through the creation. We have no excuse for not understanding who God is because knowledge of God "is evident" through creation. So, in this sense I would agree with Bell more than I would agree with the Constructive Curmudgeon. To speak of connectedness with God through the creation is not Gnostic, et al, it is very Pauline.<BR/><BR/>Having said that, I imagine your interpretation of Romans 1 might be more rationalistic (small "r"). From your general apologetic approach I would presume that you interpet Romans 1 on a strictly intellectual level. Personally, I follow Calvin (and more recently Plantinga) on seeing something of a <I>sensus divinitatis</I> element in Romans 1. If your interpretation is more rationalistic, then I can see how you might be inclined to cast an eye of disdain towards anything that smacks of emotion or existentialism. But, Doug, wouldn't you say that the majestic sounds of that blessed pagan, John Coltrane, usher you into the presence of God?Jonathan Erdmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04234688186113838474noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14410967.post-34464558466759965572007-06-07T14:19:00.000-06:002007-06-07T14:19:00.000-06:00I agree that we come to God on His terms. I haven...I agree that we come to God on His terms. I haven't read Bell's latest work, so I can't offer a critique. However, permit to say that I don't think the concept that we cannot experience a truely vibrant spiritual life without loving ourselves is wrong. In order to experience the abundant life of which Jesus speaks in John 10:10, we must appreciate who He made us to be and how He made us...that we are "fearfully and wonderfully made." After coming to God on His terms, we must then accept who we have been created to be...to love ourselves...in order to truly experience an abundant life. <BR/><BR/>Something the emergent movement emphasizes is that we aren't Christ-followers simply for the promised after life, but for this life. In fact, life cannot be truly experienced until we are Christ-followers. I would even venture to say that we can't love ourselves apart from the Holy Spirit, but it is a part of having a passionate relationship with God. <BR/><BR/>While we aren't to place ourselves before others, we certainly aren't to devalue ourselves, either, as Paul so eloquently penned in the Scriptures.Davehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18228237190423435197noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14410967.post-85332470270622264102007-06-06T17:47:00.000-06:002007-06-06T17:47:00.000-06:00"Perhaps as our culture moves steadily deeper into..."Perhaps as our culture moves steadily deeper into postmodern subjectivism it is losing its ability to distinguish actual “rudeness” from unequivocal clarity? "<BR/><BR/>Quite! But the response was to my correcting Anita, I think, not my critique of Bell.Douglas Groothuis, Ph.D.https://www.blogger.com/profile/08766692378954258034noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14410967.post-51474556067328518572007-06-06T17:26:00.000-06:002007-06-06T17:26:00.000-06:00I echo Michael Glawson. Your most recent post on e...I echo Michael Glawson. Your most recent post on etiquette was convicting, albeit unnecessary for most readers.<BR/><BR/>Ken: the issue is devoting a whole blog post regarding an isolated incident (mine...a misspelling on a previous post...not deliberate of course...just hurried). <BR/><BR/>But of course Groothuis will say that it is his prerogative to write what he wants because its his blog and we can't really dispute that.Danielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07600780136429792975noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14410967.post-50677160971280066632007-06-06T16:34:00.000-06:002007-06-06T16:34:00.000-06:00I appreciate your straightforward analysis. I’m at...I appreciate your straightforward analysis. I’m at a loss as to why some think your statements reflect a rude manner.<BR/>Perhaps as our culture moves steadily deeper into postmodern subjectivism it is losing its ability to distinguish actual “rudeness” from unequivocal clarity?Ken Clickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16524706211598611793noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14410967.post-73059496561105591122007-06-06T09:53:00.000-06:002007-06-06T09:53:00.000-06:00This is why I am comfortable dubbing this segment ...This is why I am comfortable dubbing this segment of the emerging church movement the "New Liberalism."Aaron Snellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08551668915973379312noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14410967.post-82261799578817004772007-06-06T09:21:00.000-06:002007-06-06T09:21:00.000-06:00Michael Glawson/Anita:Perhaps Doug was a little em...Michael Glawson/Anita:<BR/>Perhaps Doug was a little embarrassed by Anita’s praise. Sorry to psychoanalyze you, Doug, and I could definitely be wrong, but my observation is that people who are hard on others are hard on themselves as well, and Doug has very high standards. Having had the pleasure of getting to know Doug in person over the winter, I can testify to the fact that he is humble and approachable in person.Bethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01644107947736007473noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14410967.post-53938958534101301592007-06-06T07:52:00.000-06:002007-06-06T07:52:00.000-06:00Was it Milton that distinguished between sensate (...Was it Milton that distinguished between sensate (possessing senses), sensuous (affecting the senses), and sensual (affecting the senses in a sexual manner)? I wonder if you mean sensuous when you say sensual. I wonder if Bell means sensuous when he speaks of being sexual.QNormalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01088526434729767007noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14410967.post-20929567030692886742007-06-06T02:09:00.000-06:002007-06-06T02:09:00.000-06:00Dr. Groothuis, I really appreciate your blog, book...Dr. Groothuis, I really appreciate your blog, books, and lectures that I have learned from, and your passion for truth has inspired me to live differently. Sometimes though you seem very rude in the way you interact with others (though only on your blog, and I have a friend who knows you and says you're very nice in person). It's often hard to read a person's tone through a single written sentence, but it might be worth giving a thought to how you may be percieved in comments like the above one. I mean, I hesitated to even post this fearing that you would point out a comma splice.<BR/><BR/>With love,<BR/>Michael GlawsonMichael Glawsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06341075441219680891noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14410967.post-50025865780688230342007-06-05T23:35:00.000-06:002007-06-05T23:35:00.000-06:00Anita:Thank you, but why the aversion to CAPITALIZ...Anita:<BR/><BR/>Thank you, but why the aversion to CAPITALIZATION?<BR/><BR/>best,<BR/>dougDouglas Groothuis, Ph.D.https://www.blogger.com/profile/08766692378954258034noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14410967.post-17111434146528047362007-06-05T22:48:00.000-06:002007-06-05T22:48:00.000-06:00amen and thank you. this is why you should keep bl...amen and thank you. this is why you should keep blogging- these are the thoughts we need expressed in this day and hour.Anita and Bruce Hensleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16203639272547726095noreply@blogger.com